In looking at the two books I currently have on the M1917, you may have found a gun with a possibly significant serial number. Assuming the serial number has not been altered (inspect the reciever stamping carefully) the rifle in question is a few thousand numbers higher than the last expected number from the (incomplete) records currently available!
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I would buy that rifle, if not ridiculously priced, were I in your shoes - and if you can't or decide not to, please let me know where it is! It is not, and now never will be an all original collectors piece, as it is now a mixmaster, but it is an interesting insight into M1917 production. Like M1 Garands, there is an 'official' last serial number in most books that is obviously not the last number - because we have rifles numbered higher.
The last Remington M1917 serial currently known, based on the end of the World War I, plus postwar production up until December, 1918, as manufacturers were allowed to finish 'work in progress' and phase out their manufacturing opperations. The number in JC Harrison's book shows a definite serial number of 545,541 for the last rifle as of Nov. 9, 1918 - wartime production. The 'work in progress' went on through at least December 1918 at Remington (longer at Winchester) - and the 'beginning of month' serial number for December 1918 is estimated to be 600,000. If Remington was making 2,000 per day at Ilion, that would mean 660,000 would be about the expected last number. Of course Remington could have been making more than 2,000 per day, or put on extra shifts to complete more rifles by the cutoff date. Obviously, all of the makers wanted to run their factories at maximum production for as long as possible, as they had already bought the raw materials and had the workforce, and since WWI was supposed to last through 1919, the end came before anyone expected it.
So if Remington was told by the US Govt. 'we'll take everything you build up through December 31st, midnight' they might have 'cranked it up' to take advantage and sell the government as many rifles (and use up the extra raw materials stockpiled) as possible. I am not much of an Enfield Collector - yet (I'm working on it!) - so I would suggest you ask this question on the other Military Surplus Forums (MilSurps.com, Culver's Shooting Page, etc.) Perhaps someone with more information can give a better answer. CC PS - I just found an article, from the Remington Society on the Eddystone Plant, that states that Remington was allowed to continue production until February, 1919. That would explain higher numbers than previously believed. See this site: http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/journals/Eddystone. I looked at the picture of the Serial Number - and, frankly, the number stamping looks odd to me.
The numbers appear to be almost 'hand stamped' with individual stamps, though I cannot be sure. The '6' stamps appear to be a slightly different size, and one appears a little crooked. I would check with other M1917 Enfield folks and ask about the stamping qualities on their Remington recievers. All the M1917s I can recall looking at, the numbers were square and straight and appeared to have been rolled on by a large stamping die, not hand stamped. I have seen very few Remingtons, most of the ones I have examined are Eddystones, over the years.
It is possible that this was a left over reciever, and numbered by hand at the end of production, I guess. Or, worst case, that someone altered the number long ago. Any intact M1917 is worth $600 nowadays as a shooter, if the bore is usable, in my opinion.
I picked up a Remington 1917 in 30-06 about a year ago, it was cheap, seemed like an OK 30-06 and i was bored waiting for a friend so I bought it. Serial # is 2931. I have no idea about this rifle, its value, history all that, I did use the googles but mine looks a hair different than those online, and I paid WAY LESS which makes me think mine is different. It has all the markings from the 1917 info I can find, fireball thing, serial number means it was built July 1918 and it has eagles stamped on almost every part. I paid only $175 for it AT a gun shop but 1917's go from $425 to $1,500.
Your 1917 has had extensive modifications done to it. The rear sight used to be mounted to the rear receiver ring with 2 ears to protect it. Those are usually the first to go in a sporterization.
The barrel was dovetailed for a sight and another sight is mounted over the chamber. It's worth what you paid for it, and is too far gone to ever be restored to military configuration. The action is popular for building magnum rifles. The cock on closing feature, if still present on your rifle, can be changed to cock on opening if preferred. Click to expand.Not entirely correct.
After the war, Remington had plenty left laying around and knew the value of the action. They proceed to produce the model 30. The model 30 is much rarer to find.
Comes with factory walnut sporter stock. Standard iron sights, no 'wings' a pep sight.
Outstanding gun. I have a couple guns built off the 1917 (mix from Remington-Winchester- and a couple Eddystones.) I only have one model 30 and its a beauty. But yes this is a std pattern 1917 Remington that has been 'sporterized' One of my favored actions for building on. To give you a real good idea of the retail value of this rifle. In a Pawn shop here in Woodburn is a 1917 Remington that has had the rear sight cut off the barrel shortened (no front dovetail) Had the receiever drilled for scope mounts. The stock was replaced with a VERY nice Monte carlo style sporter stock in straight grain walnut with nice caps. It has a Leopold Rifleman 3-9X on it in excellent condition.
The rifle has a good looking bore and the Bluing was obviously redone (excellent job) and a heavy leather sling. My son seriously considered buying it. Asking price was $399.00 best deal to an active duty Sailor (my son) was $350.00 I don't see yours as quite the same level as the one in Woodburn. Click to expand.Actually it ran a distant third in the WWII military action strength department.
When I was in gunsmith school, our instructor, who was a huge history buff told us the Garand finished first (surprised me), then the early war Jap Arisakas (not the late war bonzai guns), then the 1917. Properly done, the 1917 can make a heck of a nice custom rifle. It's suitable or can be made so for the longest commercial cartridges available. But by the time you spend the money, you could probably have a nice CZ safari sporter for cheaper. The amount of machining needed to change the action to a commercial quality action is considerable. Mountainbear, I had read that the Arisaka was rated as strongest military action,when done right.
I also read that their tolerances were all over the board and have you ever seen a model 99 in anything besides 7.7 or a model 38 in anything but 6.5. Don't get me wrong they are cool reliable and bullet proof but would you consider using one for the basis of a target rifle? I would never alter an original, but I can't recall ever seeing one that was sporterized. Event man golf software.
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Your comment on the Garrand blew me away. How can a gas fed automatic be the strongest military action?
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Rebarrel for 375 H and H or.458 Win Mag, head space and recontour bolt head, pull trigger.and find bolt 300 yards behind your starting point. I'm sorry, that was kind of a smart. comment, but I have never seen over size recoil springs that were not for different 30-06 bullet weights. The garand is indeed strong, but its adaptability to other calibers is pretty limited given its magazine and bolt design. The 1917 on the other hand is quite adaptable to other calibers, the 1914, its.303 cousin is even better suited to belted magnum conversion, due to its extractor and magazine being designed for a larger based rimmed cartridge.
The 'trick' at one time was to rechamber the 1917 for 300 win mag (no barrel change) and use the 1914 bolt, magazine box and follower, thus leaving the only real modifications to be done to the feed lips on the reciever. Pity about the rear sight on yours, but way back these were considered cheap surplus, I haven't seen to many unaltered ones around. I would value yours at $150-$200.
Arisakas in 7.7 have been converted to 30-'06, but why invest time and effort into a really ugly gun? I personally consider them to be unacceptable for anything but a wall hanger. Mountainbear, I had read that the Arisaka was rated as strongest military action,when done right. I also read that their tolerances were all over the board and have you ever seen a model 99 in anything besides 7.7 or a model 38 in anything but 6.5. Don't get me wrong they are cool reliable and bullet proof but would you consider using one for the basis of a target rifle? I would never alter an original, but I can't recall ever seeing one that was sporterized.
Your comment on the Garrand blew me away. How can a gas fed automatic be the strongest military action? Rebarrel for 375 H and H or.458 Win Mag, head space and recontour bolt head, pull trigger.and find bolt 300 yards behind your starting point. I'm sorry, that was kind of a smart. comment, but I have never seen over size recoil springs that were not for different 30-06 bullet weights. Click to expand.Yeah, the Garand thing blew me away as well.
But the gentleman I heard it from certainly has credentials, both as a gunsmith and historian, so I tended to give him the benefit of the doubt. The Arisaka is exceptionally strong. I have seen them built into 'hunter' calibers (06' etc.) as well as sporterized in their original calibers. They are not generally considered by professionals as 'top-tier' actions to start a custom build on. The very large, almost bulbous safety on the rear of the bolt is an aesthetic nightmare for many people. The fit and finish was rough on many examples as well. I have seen these turned into beautiful sporter rifles, but they would never be my first choice.
At this point, I would not alter an original Arisaka, especially one with the imperial chrysanthemum still intact. For that matter, there are very few complete military rifles (Mausers, Garands, Enfields) that I would take from original configuration. Two factors here.
One, there aren't very many complete, original configuration (and even fewer numbers matching originals, due to both civilian and military rebuilds) rifles left in circulation. Many that do exist are in private collections and won't return to circulation until their owners pass. Second, there are plenty of both half sporterized mausers and enfields, as well as quality and readily available commercial actions to start a project on. My preference is for finding already sporterized (usually non drilled and tapped) rifles and either completing the job, or redoing the job. I currently have several projects in my shop being built.
Included are: one Siamese Mauser, two Turk Mausers (a lot of finish work needed), two Swedish Mausers, a Chilean small ring Mauser, and a WWII German (1943) Mauser that is actually getting restored, not sporterized. Most of these rifles are for myself or for family members. I no longer carry an FFL or manufacturers license, so I don't do public work anymore.
Besides, its very difficult to find a market for a 3000$ custom Mauser, which with the cost of machining and stock work, these can get to that price quickly. The above statements about the Garand (from Coop) are pretty well the skinny on why you don't see Garands converted around all that often.
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